Since it’s Good Friday it seems appropriate to post something I’ve been thinking about lately.
“I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: ‘I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God.’ That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic–on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg–or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronising nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”
C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity, pp. 55-56
Troubling.
March 25th, 2005 at 3:26 pm
what a load of bollocks. but now we at least have an idea via which route america got its black/white mentality… along with puritanism one of britains great gifts to humanity
March 25th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Care to expand that thought a bit? As it stands, I can’t tell what on earth you are blathering about.
March 25th, 2005 at 5:11 pm
re, we Americans can be blamed for a lot of crap, but not for the very English C. S. Lewis, whose version of Christianity didn’t have much to do with Puritanism or American-style fundamentalism.
Of course, the problem with Lewis’s argument is that it assumes Jesus said everything the Bible says he did. The Gospel of John came at least 100 years after the others, and is the only one in which the most lunatic claims are put in Jesus’ mouth. It’s even the place where the story of “doubting Thomas” is invented, which is interesting because of the very different theology in the Gospel of Thomas, which is almost Buddhist (Jesus is the son of God and one with God, but so is everyone else). The Roman Empire rejected the Gnostics and backed John.
March 25th, 2005 at 5:28 pm
In all the Gospels, if you read the things Jesus says, you have to come to the conclusion that a) he didn’t actually say them b) he was a liar c) he was insane d) he was telling the truth. I picked one Gospel at random, Matthew, and found instances where Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, claimed to be able to forgive sins, claimed to be Lord of the Sabbath, and claimed to be able to heal people of their illnesses. If the person who sits next to you at work claimed those things, what would you think? Would you call them a great Moral Teacher? I think that is Lewis’ point. The only way you can come to the conclusion that Jesus was simply a great moral teacher is if you don’t actually come to that conclusion at all but start with the assumption that that is what he is and then take out all the verses where he makes lunatic claims and say those didn’t actually happen.
March 25th, 2005 at 7:52 pm
Sounds like a very interesting discussion. I personally follow Christianity, so I’m not sure what to make of all this stuff you are wriitng.
March 26th, 2005 at 11:47 am
And if you reject the idea that Jesus said everything the gospels said he did, fine. But then where are you getting the idea that he was a good moral teacher? What have you read about Jesus outside of the gospels that would lead you to that conclusion? The four gospels is undoubtedly the most definitive source of information that exists on the life of Jesus of Nazareth.
March 30th, 2005 at 12:53 pm
There are at least several other very difinitive sources of information about our Lord, Jesus Christ that stand as a witness to Him along with the Bible.
The Book of Mormon, Another Testament of Jesus Christ - Jesus Christ is mentioned thousands of times in various terms. A thorough reading of this book will do nothing more than cement the absolute truth that Jesus Christ is the Messiah and that it is only through Him that we can return to God (the Father).
Here’s a few verses from the Book of Mormon …
1 AND now it came to pass that there were a great multitude gathered together, of the people of Nephi, round about the temple which was in the land Bountiful; and they were marveling and wondering one with another, and were showing one to another the great and marvelous change which had taken place.
2 And they were also conversing about this Jesus Christ, of whom the sign had been given concerning his death.
3 And it came to pass that while they were thus conversing one with another, they heard a voice as if it came out of heaven; and they cast their eyes round about, for they understood not the voice which they heard; and it was not a harsh voice, neither was it a loud voice; nevertheless, and notwithstanding it being a small voice it did pierce them that did hear to the center, insomuch that there was no part of their frame that it did not cause to quake; yea, it did pierce them to the very soul, and did cause their hearts to burn.
4 And it came to pass that again they heard the voice, and they understood it not.
5 And again the third time they did hear the voice, and did open their ears to hear it; and their eyes were towards the sound thereof; and they did look steadfastly towards heaven, from whence the sound came.
6 And behold, the third time they did understand the voice which they heard; and it said unto them:
7 Behold my Beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased, in whom I have glorified my name—hear ye him.
8 And it came to pass, as they understood they cast their eyes up again towards heaven; and behold, they saw a Man descending out of heaven; and he was clothed in a white robe; and he came down and stood in the midst of them; and the eyes of the whole multitude were turned upon him, and they durst not open their mouths, even one to another, and wist not what it meant, for they thought it was an angel that had appeared unto them.
9 And it came to pass that he stretched forth his hand and spake unto the people, saying:
10 Behold, I am Jesus Christ, whom the prophets testified shall come into the world.
11 And behold, I am the light and the life of the world; and I have drunk out of that bitter cup which the Father hath given me, and have glorified the Father in taking upon me the sins of the world, in the which I have suffered the will of the Father in all things from the beginning.
The Doctrine and Covenatns - Modern day revelation about the gospel of Jesus Christ
The Peal of Great Price - inspired translation of scripture about the Gospel of Jesus Christ
Be warned that Jesus Christ truly did walk the earth, He truly atoned for our sins, He truly was resurrected, and He certainly will return again. If you have read the scriptures and do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah, then you have misunderstood the teaching of all the prophets that have testified and prophesied of our Lord.
If you would like a free hard copy of any of these books, please email me at maxdrown@gmail.com and I will mail them out to you asap.